Called to serve: Tech, research, and positive impact

In the summer of 2010, postdoc Chris White worked with a multidisciplinary team at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA, to determine if a new approach to data analysis could prevent violence and protect troops during the war in Afghanistan. At the conclusion of the program, the agency asked White to prove the value of his work—on the ground. In this episode, Principal Technical Program Manager Weishung Liu talks with White, director of Catalyst Lab at Microsoft Research, about his unexpected break from academic research to help lead advanced tech operations in Afghanistan and his later decision to again work on tech with immediate, real-world implications: dark-web search tools used to help combat human trafficking. Liu and White explore the influences that led to these experiences plus the important role of problem selection in innovation and remaining hopeful after seeing the darkest parts of humanity. Subscribe to the Microsoft Research Podcast : Apple Podcasts Email Android Spotify RSS Feed Transcript [MUSIC] CHRIS WHITE: I have seen a lot of really bad humanity. You know, I’ve seen terrorism and trafficking and sophisticated organized crime, you know, designed to take things from people. Designed to hurt people. And I just know that I can do something about it, you know, and that I have and that we can. And so I think that that light, you know, the light of making a difference, you know, allows me to hold and handle, you know, the dark parts. [THEME MUSIC] STANDARD INTRODUCTION: This is the Microsoft Research Podcast , where Microsoft researchers—driving advancement through fundamental science and technology research—explore the who, how, and what’s next in computing and AI. [MUSIC ENDS] WEISHUNG LIU: Hi, and welcome. I’m Weishung Liu, a principal technical program manager here at Microsoft Research, and today I’m talking to Dr. Christopher White, who leads Microsoft Research’s Catalyst Lab . Chris has one of those careers that sounds almost made up: a Harvard postdoc, on-the-ground advanced tech lead during the war in Afghanistan, a DARPA program manager, a dark web search pioneer, and a public-good technologist. And his work has been featured in Popular Science (opens in new tab) as well as recognized with honors, including the 2016 Presidential Award for Extraordinary Efforts to Combat Trafficking in Persons (opens in new tab) . But what I’m most interested in today is the person behind that résumé. How someone who has seen some of the worst as part of his work still comes to the office with a smile and a commitment to building tools that make the world better. Chris, thanks for joining me. WHITE: Thanks for having me, Wei. Nice to see you. LIU: Yeah, good to see you, too. And so let’s get started. So I’ve known you for, I think, maybe around five or maybe six years, and now I work with you in Catalyst Lab. I love your story, and when I tell people about you, I say that you lead the newly formed Cat Lab, or Catalyst Lab, in Microsoft Research, you were a senior executive at DARPA, and you are married to an incredibly accomplished woman and scholar. And I personally think that your life story would make a very watchable Hollywood film. So when you tell your own story, though, where do you start? WHITE: Well, you start from where you are. And where I am today is leading research at Microsoft during a period of great fear and hope about changing technology and society. LIU: But, like, that’s now. There’s clearly lots of time from now into before, you know, the before times. So, like, tell me a little bit about the before times. Like, where were you at—I think you grew up in Oklahoma maybe. Tell me about that. Tell me about Chris White, the child. WHITE: Well, I was nerdy. I was a nerdy Eagle Scout. [LAUGHTER] I liked to build my own computers and have local area network [LAN] parties with my friends. But I also really liked being outside. I liked being in nature and camping and rock climbing. Those were all important to me. LIU: OK, you mentioned LAN parties. Tell me about ... what did we play with our friends? WHITE: Well, you know, we played everything. I preferred playing sports games, but I lost a lot of the other ones. LIU: [LAUGHS] Wait, so you played like LAN party sports games, like, in basements? Like, with your ... were we all in the same ... ? WHITE: Yeah. Attics. It was attics. Yeah, not basements. [LAUGHTER] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Everybody had to bring their own computer or bring their own Ethernet cable. And the more that you had your own machine that was higher powered, the better you were going to play. LIU: So did you have the best machine? WHITE: I had the best machine. I built the best machine. Until someone built a better machine. But it was the best for a while. And I had a budget for it. And my family didn’t understand that the budget also included two giant speakers, like the size of a computer tower, like subwoofer speakers. They didn’t know that was part of the computer building process. But it turns out that excellent audio-visual is a critical part of a well-functioning machine. LIU: I love it. But, OK, we’re going to focus a little bit ... continue focusing on childhood. So you mentioned nerdy kid, which means—I’m going to generalize here—debate team or math competition team or chess team? WHITE: Oh, it was the debate team. Yeah. Debate was a really wonderful activity. It taught me how to understand many sides of an issue and taught me how to think about evidence and research in that way. LIU: So, Chris, take me back again. Like, we’re talking a little bit about Oklahoma, and, you know, at some point, you chose researcher. Like, I—for example—when I was a kid, I was convinced I would be an architect. I am not an architect as you can see. But did you always think you were going to be a researcher? Was there an epiphany there? Like ... or was it always kind of like a slow hunch that you were going to pursue research as a career? WHITE: Yeah, I kind of always felt like it. You know, as I was applying for school, those were the kinds of jobs I was interested in. You know, the kinds of things that you do, you know, once you finish degrees that have research in them. Those were the people, when I visited their work, I was inspired by. The people that were discovering, you know, that were inventing, that were innovating, that were ... they’re pushing the boundaries that were kind of in that unknown, you know, space and making sense of it. And so I’ve always had that curiosity, you know, and that approach to discovery. And so as I increased my education, it just changed the nature of what research meant and the ways in which I imagined that process evolving. LIU: Was a doctorate always on the cards then? Or did that come, like, as you were in college and then gradually learned and thought, you know, I could keep going? WHITE: Yeah, you know, I didn’t know about doctorates really when I went to college. I wasn’t as familiar with higher education. And so I knew that I wanted, you know, advanced degrees. And I knew that I wanted more than was being taught in the undergraduate level. But I didn’t know, you know, for example, that when you apply to PhD programs, that often you get paid to go. You know, you get admitted and you get a stipend. You know, I was familiar with law and medicine and that you take out loans and you have to do it this way. And so for me, it was a surprise to know that I could apply to PhD programs directly from college. And from then, I just really was excited, you know, that I could explore different universities and different areas of focus and build on, you know, strong technical foundations of math and science and physics. And it was really amazing mentors that helped me and opened doors and inspired me. You know, mentors at Oklahoma State University, Johns Hopkins, and Harvard, really people that took their time and helped me. I’m really grateful for my teachers. LIU: So let’s talk about